and basically pokes him in the kidneys. essentially, michael cohen also who had tried to back off talking about trump, also talking about this case again, at some point, do you think trump just the lid just comes off the he just erupt. sue me. yeah. >> i think that idea of jail time because actually scary to him. actually a fearful thing i think i ground level. we're talking a lot about womanhood. stormy daniels, what was she thinking? this is about manhood. it's about what it means to be a man who was donald trump trying to be and who is he trying to be now? and how does he want to behave now, we know how he behaved than 2006 according stormy daniels how's it going to behave in the next couple of weeks is going to testify, is you going to speak on his own behalf? >> this is not allowed manhood is about criminal activity that's all i don't think. i don't think the audience care much about the business record well they are getting paid to unless you're getting paid to follow this trial, most

americans are not. this is at the end of the de, this will be about whatever the jury thinks about all of that, everyone. >> thank you so much. thank you for watching a special edition of newsnight on trump's hush money trial. our coverage continues with a special edition of laura coates live next stormy daniel aspides back against attempts to shame her and her career. >> another trump inside are tearing up on the stand and the judge rebuked zone trump's lawyers welcome to a special edition of laura coates live so we knew all this was going to be coming out. >> right. but we didn't actually know it would be this explosive for this amount of time trump's team attempting a full-on assault on stormy daniels credibility on now day 14. and his hush money trial defense attorney susan necklace, who was the one grilling daniels for hours, trying to paint her as being

only in it for the money trying to make it appear as if she had a huge vendetta against trump trying to make her appear very unstable and try in a tarnish or work as an adult film actress and director and throw it all stormy wasn't having it. she was defiant throughout. she stood her ground and defended her character in spite of the oncoming assault and one of the more combative exchanges, necklace going after daniels about whether she made up everything about trump that was asking so you have a lot of experience and making phony stories about sex appear real, right? angles responded, wow, i'm at, well, that's not how i would put it. the sex in the films is very much real. just like what happened to me in that room look, we knew that trump's team wanted to appear aggressive and going after daniels. but here's the thing i'm thinking about. what if their strategy actually helps the prosecution's case. i made the defense wants the jury to believe and they do that this woman is all about the money

she only cared about that and her bottom line that she was ruthless and shrewd and had every intention and making sure the story got out there somehow some way it cut cost to anyone but herself well isn't that exactly what central casting would look like for the person that you'd want to pay off to keep quiet tonight, we will dig into how that could play into the jury's thinking and speaking of intense testimony, we also heard from a trump insider who worked in the white house just outside the oval office, by the way and our name madeline west or how'd and if is using her to try to connect the dots of what this case is really about if those you forgot with all the details have been coming in it's about falsified business records and the 34 counts of it the scheme all to try to keep stormy daniels quiet and hide it according to prosecutors from the transparency of an election. and her testimony, by the way, it did lay some of the

groundwork for trying to bridge that gap and connect the dots. but she also showed that she wasn't there to tear down the form of resident, even crying. she does bribed her white house departure. >> and the days of crying and shouting back and forth witnesses that that wasn't enough. >> the judge will he scolded the defense again after the jury left? he rejected two motions brought by trump's team. one was a modified gag orders that trump could now talk publicly about somebody who was the longer a prospective or future witness. but a past witness, stormy daniels and get another move for a mistrial based on what they thought was the unlawful and wide scope of questioning that came in about the details of the alleged sexual encounter and beyond a lot to unpack we've just got the right group to do all of it. we've got cnn senior crime and justice reporter katelyn polantz, cnn opinion contributor and former house gop investigative committee councils of nelson,

former trump attorney jim trusty. see you political commentator karen fannie, and former republican congressman joe walsh all of you to have shorter titles because my mouth they're all here. they're all here. again, here are coming. so great to have you so, first of all they needed to try to discredit stormy out. that's the whole point of the cross but a really effective cross is one where you just get yes and no responses. >> stormy. >> she was talkative, she was defined at times combative why did they spend so much time with someone who technically according the falsify a documents themselves is irrelevant, right? i'm in the relationships are relevant. the fact that there was an nda is not disputed i think there was a shift of strategy that's not great. i mean, i've preached from the beginning, if you're on the defense side of this your entire strategy is make it a referendum on michael cohen, the entire case rises or falls

on his credibility. that's the perfect battlefield. i mean, you can cross-examine him for seven or eight months and still be getting good points. so please don't do that. >> we're gonna be done by 20 25, but we look easy. a target rich environment, it's going to be a lot of phone to cross-examine him, but you want the jury to be thinking the only way we convict is if we believe this guy and i have to say from the other witnesses not stormy. it does seem to be gravitating towards he's the guy that could supposedly deliver this kind of cryptic theory of what's going on with the ledger and the check entries. >> so i think what happened is they started off disciplined then they had the ability to regroup over time and they're talking to the client as well, and they're thinking hey client has opinionated client but they're looking at it and they're saying, boy, she'd gotten a bunch of gratuitous stuff like the original discipline was, let's not object too much. that's not make it look like she's hurting. well, that let her get into all these insane vivid details that hurt so they come back after the break and ago

we've got to go strong after her so this has played out with a mistrial motion as well. that strategy of taking it on the chin, but acting like it doesn't hurt and then trying to come back in and essentially opening doors with their cross-examination for harmful redirect. so it kinda spiral into a different case for a few hours with this cross-examinati on, i don't think that was particularly helpful, but i will say she's also fairly target rich environment. i mean, when you have somebody on the stand talking about how she's been talking to dead people and getting paid for that. there's gonna be some new york jurors that are like this ouija board crap is, or they might not say crap and this ouija board stuff is really getting kinda silly and crazy. i can't trust this woman the, problem again for the state spent too much time dignifying her as a witness for a case that's about paper entries. >> i mean, i have i have love $0.06. it was a hell of a moody i see why that happened, right. >> trump went into the room and went crazy on his lawyers and said, you go after her and you deal with her and that's exactly what what happened. and

that's why you had all this focus on stormy damage to your point when you shouldn't have and i think they hurt themselves actually defense that it will be interesting to see if they do to cohen, but i think she heard them. >> i mean, it was the way that they went after her and i tell you, i maybe it's because i have been a sex prosecutor before, karen. yeah. and one of the one yeah, it's one of the one of the tactics people often will use as they in their defense will try to do and say anything to try to suggest that somehow the person who is stating that there has been a sexual encounter grande this is not something has claimed sexual assault or rape. she has said that this is consensual. she's repeated over and over in the cross and she's not a victim. but they were intent on trying to talk about the number of sexual porins that she had done too to get to the partner count. they were trying to have the jurors be disgusted by her. >> and i guess jurors they're not proves and i love that they actually think themselves. >> i have to think you're

disgusting to believe you. well, also, it is it was a time tested tactic, right of attacking in a woman for having sex, for having what some might think is too much sex or rough sex, or getting paid for sex, or all of it. >> they were trying to make it all very unseemly at to go after her credibility but i kept thinking, you could have avoided this whole thing if you just want a stipulated to the fact that they had sex, we would not have had to hear any of that, but trump won't do that, right? the heat fundamentally, he says it never happened. so that is why we've had two days of testimony from stormy daniels and you're right. i mean, it's who knows how the jurors took it. one thing that struck me was just from the tone and tenor of how the defense attorneys were questioning stormy daniels versus hope hicks versus right? for some of the women on the jury, they might have not

recognize that you're going to bully this woman and you're going to coddle these other women now i understand my home by the way, are the same or the same age. now, or when they started perhaps as she was when she had this alleged encounter. and it's led to that point, caitlin, i want to hear from you so because i am constantly wondering when there are two jurors you got to please you got to please the 18 that are in the room and convinced that there's gonna be 12 ultimately who will decide the case. you got the larger court of public opinion and electorate what's more important to the trump campaign? trying to prove that he did not have sexual relations with this person. >> or that was a clinton next but there or was it that this is a weaponized government? well, judge merchan actually address this with just the lawyers at the end after the jury leaves and says to them, i don't know why you guys weren't objecting more whenever these facts were first coming out, not only were you

not objecting as these details are coming out into the record from stormy daniels is stuff that's making donald trump embarrassed as a candidate, his lawyers are saying that to the judge he is embarrassed as candidate. he wants to be able to publicly talk more to refute her story. and they didn't and they reminded the jurors today, during the cross of all of these details and the judge said there were other ways that you could have done this and you didn't. your approach was one that is not working here legally for you to claim a mistrial at this point, talk to me about hurt me astronomy by the way, is no shrinking violet as we've seen. and at one point they have, they'd asked for the gag order not to apply the people blackcurrant. she hasn't had protection was probably their argument. michael cohen as well. she's been tweeting tonight and she has been provoke. >> yeah, she gets off of the stand six hours of testimony over two days and tweets real men respond to testimony by being sworn in and taking the stand in court obviously, taking a shot at donald trump,

who she talking about we proceed, laura. like that's why i think this just all politically helps trump this. stormy has nothing to do with the crime. you're right that trump probably shed go after her, but in a weird way, if he can make this about stormy and it's just a weird, yucky flaying that he had politically, his supporters think this doesn't matter. that's and if she's out there, 20 happening in the courtroom or is this about what's happening in the discussion afterwards outside the courtroom, he wants to be able to counter her message that's being shared about the reporting on what's happening, what she's saying in the courtroom. >> yeah. i'm luckily, you're right the, judge is saying no that's what she says to do it in the courtroom, put the facts they're if they're if there needs to be a counter to what she's saying, the place to do that is not not going your oath though, because he knows that's a whole big problem for him, so no lawyer, am i right is go let him on the stand. am i wrong?

>> because obviously you've been pretrial rulings that would affect him dramatically in terms of testifying, the judge that he could be cross& a lot of somehow e. jean carroll is relevant to this case. there's all sorts of stuff they'd crime plus examine an arm. but the reality i think is just a more straight tactical decision. you want to make it all about michael cohen, period anything else is a distraction. president trumping on the stand telling his story. it's a distraction. and the reason why they appear inconsistent with these other witnesses is they're getting friendly crosses, they're getting concessions without raising using their voice. that is by far the best tactic here for all of these witnesses that are controllers that are hope hicks types they're upset, they're throwing stuff out that helps or hurts both sides a little bit. but ultimately, don't turn it into a battle where you look like they're hurting you. and i think that this i think you'd go back to the gag order for a second. the gag order is become simply a measure of ego at this point, the jury is sequestered. they're told don't hopefully don't pay attention and immediate

questions. >> not in a literal told not to be able to look at not to do, they're not in a hotel by themselves, right? >> right. right. i mean, i always wonder when the judge says don't pay attention in the media if they're not all getting on their phones on the ride home, but but luck, the reality is they're being told don't pay attention anything happening out about this court courtroom, just pay attention to what happens in the courtroom. >> so donald trump saying anything from a to z it's not criminal on its face, and it's not affecting the jury. >> they are trying to protect witnesses. that's the other piece. it's not just well, here's the thing. i mean sympathetic when cohen and stormy now our taunting from the freedom of their speech while somebody i remember him are free hello, and he said in the past that he's going to stop now, the problem is for both stormy and michael, is that they have said a lot four years and they are you talked about rich targets in the sense of being able to cross on them everyone standby, we have a lot more to talk about. don't you worry, especially that especially what was the indictment candle on bringing

that up and all the merchandise i want to bring in someone who's been in court all week. asha bach o shay, she's a justice department correspondent for usa today& also a lawyer. ayesha, thank you so much for being here. i have a lot of questions. and one of them let me get right to the point. i want to know what was the jury's body language and reaction? to the discussion and me cross-examination by nicholas against stormy daniels, how were they responding the jurors were really attentive. >> they have been attentive throughout this trial, but they have not been showing their hand. it is not as if they're really telling people in the audience what they're thinking about, what's happening. you can see the kind of thing that lawyers often talk about wanting to see in a jury where people are turning their heads left and right, they're following where people are testifying. if it's the witness testifying, that's where their eyes are. if it's a lawyer asking questions, their eyes turn there. so you can really see that they're paying attention, they're taking lots of notes but it is not as if they're showing what they're thinking it was a really tough

cross-examination from susan nechele is today. but the jurors weren't really tipping their hats about what they think it's just really clear that they're paying close attention. >> show me their and describe the tone that stormy daniels had and reaction to the relentless questions from neck glas, where she was trying to suggest a lot about the work that she had done, the number of sex partners she'd had in her films. it appeared from just reading the transcript and daniel's would not be moved or was n was unbothered by the same time she was defined. what was that exchange like? who had the upper hand? >> yes. i mean, stormy daniels is clearly no shrinking violet. if anything, she kind of pay more into her own when she was under cross-examination, you could see that she was ready to fight back. that's actually a point that susan necklace made today. she showed that when stormy daniels has been harassed by people online who it might be trump's supporters. stormy daniels, house responded. so we saw that on the witness stand to when susan necklace was going after her

challenging sometimes really tiny details that necklace said were inconsistent. but to mean stories that daniels has told daniels was ready to shoot back what does it matter or what? really is the difference between these two stories? if one time i said that trump's body guard came up to me and said, mr. trump would like to have dinner with you and another time i said trump did it, but the bodyguard is sort of trump's agent. is that really a difference in the stories? my story has not changed. there was a time when nicholas really went after the fact that stormy daniels is an adult film star. and basically said, you make up things for money and daniels responded, what's happening in my movies is very real. and so is what happened between me and mr. trump. so she had no problem handling a tough cross examination. >> i mean, i still stick to my same thought about that. the idea, if you want to paint her as somebody who was money hungry, shrewd, and with no principles. that's who you want to pay off. and he wanted to have their story required. the allegation alone. that's that

to me. rings credible that you would be motivated in that way, whether you agree with whether are allegations true or not. but then there was this moment two were both trump and daniels are making money for murder ten days, and he's got a mug shot. we look at the screen, we're showing the trump merchandise. he's got the golden sneakers. he's got bibles, he's got shi selling a candle comic books t-shirts. i wonder have that landed with the jurors given this idea that it was the pot and the kettle arguing over who's black yes. >> i mean, you definitely saw people, two people who are motivated by money. i mean, daniel is really did try to push back against some of that story line from susan nechele less she really sad when it came to 2016, right before the presidential election, she wanted to tell her story that was more important to her money. and then even when she took the hush money deal, what she felt good about is that it created a paper trail. it was it was a type of document documentation that i have this story to tell so she felt like

she had some protection and she said she had security concerns, but definitely there was a lot of testimony and a lot of evidence that showed that stormy daniels cares about making money and has been successful. today, we heard testimony about daniels tweeting that she made $1 million a lot of it from her book, which discussed the trump history, some from a reality tv shell. but she doesn't shrink when when she's cross examined about those things today when we saw the candle that's on sale on the website, touting trump's indictments. susan nechele, you get $40 for each candle. don't you? and stormy set actually about seven. so she always had an answer and come back you can definitely see they're both they're both people who think about businesses and think about money that's true. but i'm not sure that that'll be the most important thing in drilling down on what jurors think at the store because she owned it, will have to see, but it may come down to the real details in her story whether

she comes across as being honest asia boxy. thank you so much. la does come down to testimony. if i remind people this is about documents, right it does. >> this is not a trial within a trial as to whether or not this sexual encounter happened it's whether there was the allegation that was sought to be suppressed and falsified business records as a result, for the purpose of trying to avoid having the campaign impacted, they've got to bridge all those. next, today's other big testimony that got to the heart of what i was talking about the business records what if former trump aides said about a key meeting between trump and michael cohen, there's his name again at the white house, plus a reporter who spoke with stormy daniels and soft her non-disclosure agreement before her story went public and his name came up in court today. i'm a document about it either brenda it's carroll actually.

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chef's kiss. free shipping anywhere nationwide i'm kevin lip ttac at the white house. >> and this is cnn now while we've heard plenty of wallace has gotten tawdry testimony, this week and donald trump's hush money case this is really a case about documents. and of

course about money. now, in order to secure a conviction, prosecutors have to play a game of connect the dots the stablished trump orchestrated the plan to falsify business records to cover up the payment from michael cohen? it's where we delos to why to help his campaign. that's a very important part. >> now, prosecutors hope that today's testimony from former trump aide, madeline western out help jurors piece that puzzle together cnn's katelyn poll lands at the magic wall with the key points from today and how prosecutors could be setting the stage for cohen to take the stand. >> caitlin did to mate is testimony. >> move that need a little or if it didn't move the needle, it at least added a piece to the puzzle. >> so the main thing at the end of the day that we saw after stormy daniels finished her testimony is the testimony of two additional people who were working for donald trump. this is these are all of the witnesses that have been on the stand over the past couple of weeks that are the chain of people who all were able to see

the paper trail and they were able to bring that into evidence. they were able to talk about things like invoices and checks. the donald trump was personally looking at signing, signing off on so that he could pay michael cohen to reimburse for this hush money. >> but this. one of these people, madeline western out she was the person sitting outside of the west wing and she was able to testify to who was in trump's frequent contacts. first and foremost, michael cohen, pretty important guy there in this trial. there are other people here, but she's helping to establish the connection directly. between donald trump and michael cohen. there's also, of course, tv hosts on here, professional athletes, some other important people in the mix of donald trump's worlds and family members that michael cohen is super important, having him on that list. >> and then ultimately madeline western out she was also able to testify laura about a

meeting on february 5, 2017. >> she is the person that sent the email to michael cohen to get all of the important details that he needed to provide to the white house. so he could get in the building. prosecutors are pointing to this meeting because they want to well edge. this is the meeting where the arrangements were made for this hush money scheme for donald trump to ultimately give michael cohen his $130,000 plus much more to keep stormy daniels quiet caitlin. >> thank you so much. i think there are a lot of people watching who were rewinding there show right now with a paddle, trying to see that list of people who were on, they're seeing serena, there's the time brady i guys have questions about that, jim, first why do you think they're bringing up all the contacts? what what is that i mean, obviously the jury knows by now they know michael cohen, they know they know david pecker. we know this, that the jury is going to be aware of this. why is that contact less important it's not as the bottom line and look, you know, i think they've they've played as hard as they can play with the notion that

people well in a position to know about bookkeeping don't have a whole lot to say in this case. >> i mean you know, we're not going to hear from allan weiss is a weisselberg if weisselberg is not a witness, which i assume he's not because he was treated like a failed cooperator by the by the government. >> he's in jail right now as well, right? >> i mean, still show up from jail but i think they've they've kinda it's almost the principle of exhaustion. let's have everybody that could say something about how payments are done and who has a voice in that process? but at the end of the de, you're talking about an entries that say for legal services and supposedly that's a felony, but for legal services nda wouldn't be that's a crazy thin line for criminality and none of these people were really budgeting that issue so to me it's going to come down to how the judge instructs on the motivation that's required for fraud. and then even if it's a mixed motivation where it only requires some element to be the politics, which is pretty easy to establish. hear i be substantial yeah, i mean,

whatever the whatever that gray area is of substantial if they can't connect trump to the entries in any plausible way in which they really haven't done so far, then it means it's cohen cohen's the right battlefield does it matter? do you think i mean, we're trump? he knows for what he's already laid the foundation and planted the seed that this jury is not going to be fair. he's been slapped on the wrist for that as well in terms of the gag order, if it comes down to documents, there's normally are black and white how is the political spin going to address that? >> this is what it comes down to. and that's why i think the whole focus on stormy daniels and the other stuff helps trump this is a paper case but to your point, jim, it i mean, it it gets really down into the weeds and laura, there's a tough ensure. trump did what he did to keep this away from the campaign. but that has to be a substantial motivation. that's a tough bar to clear.

>> except in one go you, karen, because first of all, your past life as well, i mean, this this was talked about the timing of this is not like in a vacuum, right? yeah. you pad this alleged sexual encounter happened in 2006. the payments, though we're made a few days after, i believe the access hollywood tape came in, which is a few days before the november election. actually happened. take us back to the idea of what was going on about the fallout because that's that's the key for them to talk about that substantially aspect that it wasn't protect his family it was because he knew it impacted the campaign. >> so a couple of things access hollywood tape comes out october 8, and after a rough summer, that was a huge deal, right? because as we now know, right at the rnc, they were trying to decide can we replace him on the ticket? he was already having trouble with white suburban women which as we've noted, continues to be

an issue for him and success and that's why he hires kellyanne conway they know that this is the kind of story that could do real damage. then you have so they're trying to hold it back october 28, don't forget jim comey comes out. now, what saved donald trump when the access hollywood tape came out, it was melania. people love, folks don't remember. it was her coming out affirming that? >> yeah. it's just how boys talk locker talk. that created a permission structure for women to say, okay, we can excuse that if she says it's okay, then it's okay so then as i say, cut to october 28, we have jim comey come back out and ironically, one of the arguments that donald trump was making at the time was that if hillary clinton was elected, there would be lawsuits that would be we'd be dragging through the mind because of all of her baggage well, cut too.

here we are tonight having this conversation. i mean, i want to say that this is kind of deja vu and karen, you'll remember this with the clinton impeachment matter and everything that happened the public never got their arms around the fact that it was not about the sexual encounter with monica lewinsky was about perjury, which is why they were impeaching him and everything happened. >> and i think that's the same issue. you're raising here, which is that this is a very sophisticated down in the weeds, nuanced thing. you have to really understand to get to the criminality. and i don't think the public just thinks that deep. i think they see the porn star, they see the salaciousness and they got all, this is a guide qizan and his marriage doing trump's been applied one mean, i'm old enough to remember seeing the magazines on the stand as a kid, trump has been in our life for a really long time. time doing this kind of stuff and i think that that's where there's a disconnect, laura. i don't think the public they think it's about sex with the porn star versus what it's really about anything about that to it, since there's no

cameras in the courtroom and there's no audio, you don't know if you're not watching all day long and it covers you have no idea who is eliciting that test? >> it's the money. >> when you hear that there are conversations about tweets and about missionary positions and who was wearing a condom and who's not you think that that's the prosecution? >> who is getting that testimony to come out as stormy daniel's and it doesn't. and you think okay, well, they're trying to do this as opposed to how it's really coming in and just fuels that same narrative that's part of i think it was nearing the benefit of not having those cameras and the quorum. thank you, everyone so much. next, we have one of the first journalist to speak with stormy daniels about her story. and he was brought up in court today. so the question that the prosecution and the defense want answered in the jurors mind is does her testimony lineup of what she told him back into 2016, jacob weisberg is my guest when we come back how do you get your teeth?

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washington in this is cnn the saga of stormy daniels did not start last year when the manhattan da decided to charge donald trump, nor did it began in 2016 when the alleged hush money deal was even created. it started in 2006 when she alleged she had an affair with trump at a golf tournament in lake tahoe. now, she says that she first did an interview about the encounter in 2011, but it was never published then in october of 2016, michael cohen struck a deal to buy her story in exchange for her silence, the price tag we all know white well by now, 103,000 bucks that deal didn't come to light until 2018, you know, when the wall street journal revealed it a few weeks later then trump attorney rudy giuliani confirmed it existed but another reporter almost broke this story first, joining me now is take a weisberg former reporter with slate

magazine, who spoke to daniel's about the alleged encounter and saw the non-disclosure agreement, jacob. thank you so much for joining me, i'm really eager to hear your impression of all this essentially because your name was brought up in court today by the defense attorneys whose neck wasn't here is the quote do you recall that in 2016 that at the same time that your lawyer was negotiating with michael cohen over a nondisclosure agreement? you were also speaking with the reporter from slate named jacob weisberg. do you recall that daniel response quote, i don't talking with someone from slate. i'm not sure the name. now, for me, i actually called you her backup in court. tell me about the conversation that took place yes. >> well, i actually found my way to her rather than the other way around and it was earlier than october. it was soon after the republican convention in 2016. and i was trying to convince her to go public with the story, to give it to me in a form i could use it and she wanted money for

this story and i explained to her that slade and other credible news organizations like cnn, like abc don't pay for stories. she had more experience in kind of a tabloid world in which they do. and she felt the story had value and she wanted to be paid for it. i think she was kind of indifferent whether she got paid for selling the story or for baking. the story go away. she did. >> that's interesting because her motivation has been questioned a great deal as to whether she was into feared for her life. one of the nda to i think the phrase scenes with hide in plain sight that it would give her some protection or that look in the day she wanted the money. but, you in your reaction with interaction with her she just wanted the money or the story to get out oh, i think she was much more interested in the money if she'd wanted the story to get out, she would've let me use that and it would have come out or she would have given it to another news, urbanization. >> but i would say that hearing

her testimony on tuesday and again today the, facts have been entirely consistent story she told me eight years ago, wouldn't let me use was the same story. same detailed she spanked him with a rolled-up copy of forbes magazine. and i remember i remember all the little bits what has changed, i think is her feelings about that encounter and how she kind of emotional content of the experience when she told me about it back then, she was very dismissive of it. it was no big deal. trump was ridiculous. she didn't believe anything. he said he said he was going to buy her condo in florida, put her on the apprentice. she wasn't buying any of it. kind of hoped it might happen, but she didn't believe it now, the way she describes that is something almost closer to date rape. she doesn't use those terms. she doesn't say it was coercive, but she said on the stand that she blacked out while they were having sex and she felt bullied that there was a kind of power imbalance again, same facts,

different feelings and she does talk about she was challenged on that very point because she says interviews in the past, she's not a victim. >> she reiterated understand that it was not she was not physically or threatened or harmed anyway& describes that is consensual at the same time as you've mentioned, it got the defense counsel on their feet, but that was insinuation that it was something different than that. >> did that shift for the emotional feelings surrounding the event? >> did that strike you as odd or make her less credible to you not at all. >> i mean, she used exactly the same language with me that she wasn't a victim. and you do want a point of comparison. think about monica lewinsky, who came to feel very differently about her sexual encounter with bill clinton based on what she came to understand about the power imbalance so you can have the same story, but a different relationship to that story, different feelings about the

story you actually saw the nda with cohen and asked she asked you what she should do about it. >> do you remember that moment she didn't exactly asked me what to do about it. >> i mean, she was trying to figure out what to do about it. it wasn't signed. she explained to me about these pseudonyms david dennison, there was another document which she hadn't seen it, which i didn't see which explained the key he that this was her and donald trump and she had this lawyer, keith davidson, who negotiating this. and the reason she started talking to me again after a gap in october was she thought trump having made this agreement through michael cohen, wasn't going to pay up and she understood enough about him to know that he often makes deals and then reneges on them. and she thought after the election, he wouldn't have the interest in paying the money and she wouldn't get the money. so she was she was and then when when cohen did pet sign the agreement and did pay,

then she went silent again with me so she she mentioned the idea of the election being a pivotal point, at least when she thought she would get made whole in her request her entire concern was that after the election, trump would would reneged on the agreement, wouldn't pay her an important detail, jacob weisberg. thank you so much for joining there's a story that i want to tell you more about and it has nothing to do with the trial today or any of the news that we've been covering throughout the course of this show, but is extraordinarily significant and has to do with this young man he's a florida airman and he was shot and killed in his own home because apartment by police his family says that he was playing video games and on facetime and that the deputy went to the wrong apartment at the sheriff's office says no, it was the correct unit we'll unpack what happened in just a

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three 12 shots fired, suspect down at the time of the shooting, fortson was on facetime call with his girlfriend. >> the family, releasing a portion of that video tonight and i warn you again, it's incredibly disturbing for you

the police are saying, quote, or deputy responded to a call of a disturbance in progress when he encountered an armed man tonight, that officer is currently on administrative leave. >> the sheriff department requesting an investigation still the family is demanding more information, insisting the officer went to the wrong apartment. the sheriff department, while they refute that. here's airman fortson's mother and her message, the sheriff's department about her now deceased son who does sheriff's department. >> they took my gif. i need you guys to tell the truth about my son i need you to get his reputation right i want to bring in and crump who's representing the fortson family band to hear that mother describe her son as a gift just breaks one's heart into 1 million pieces.

>> how is that family doing tonight? >> they are devastated beyond this leaf he was the brightest hope for his family. in fact he took care of his mother as well as his 16. year-old little brother, andre,& his ten you angel, harmony he talked about he is living his dream as a united states air force member to give his family a better chance at the american during. they are laura. >> this is a nightmare for any family and absolute nightmare to think about just watching that unfold the way it did, the amount of time twain, the door opening and the shots fired. and tell me about the facetime video that you released tonight what is it that you're alleging happened what his girlfriend was on facetime video with him substantial amount of time. >> and it is troubling. they

talk about a disturbance. however so he was in his apartment alone facetime with his girlfriend, with his dog, and there was no disturbance. >> you look at his history. >> he is an american patriot. this is a good kid, no criminal history whatsoever. >> he respects authority. he was registered licensed gun owner they his girlfriend talked about her knock and the door. he asked who was he and his girlfriend didn't hear anybody identify themselves. she said, but then he opened the door and less than a split second, laura, i mean, he's trying to comply. he says step back. >> right. two steps back see this kid compliant? the officer never said drop your weapon and to epa, he shot him. it was on the ground and raju was even compliant then as his fight for his life, he says, drop the weapon and roger said i did. and then you hear on the

facetime video where he said, i can't breathe, i can't breathe in the office get to talking about don't move, don't move. at many it's my what did you try and life saved him i mean, it's so troubling. laura oh, so many i mean, this is not sandi the first time we've even heard about someone being shot in their home by police officers and you represented many families. >> we have all been watching what has been happening. i mean, these are not analogous scenarios. but when it comes to say a botham, john or a breonna taylor, i could go on with a tatiana jefferson just to name a few people who were all gifts to their families. there's an investigation that is now pending we have sometimes seeing what happens and investigations. what do you expect to happen? how are they approaching the investigation is in a way that you feel confident? >> well the family as his mother said do not try to

justify this unjustified killing that video, laura, at the beginning, somebody from the leasing office, they say, what apartment isn't. she says, i'm not sure. they asked her again, she says, i'm not sure, but then she says 1401 apartment. and we believe they were wrong. they were simply at the wrong apartment. there is nothing the jazz that roger fortson was in a domestic dispute with anybody. and now this innocent drinks, gets us airman, this gift to his family is dated this is an active duty person as well as secretary of defense, lloyd austin saying through a spokesperson, tonight that he is quote, closely watching the reports of ehrmann for it since fatal shooting. >> and i do wonder what we might see from the military's response. i've what has happened to one of their own way 23 year-old active duty

airman, described by his mother as a beloved gift. ben crump. thank you so much. >> thank you. laura god bless you thank you to you as well. >> and i want to thank you all for watching. >> our coverage continues trump. >> hush money. trial gavel to gavel coverage. the way only cnn can bring it to you legal. insight, expert analysis, and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony, follows cnn millions of people have lost weight with personalized plans from noon, like britney, who lost 20 pounds, i felt so supported by new it became acre for me, noem has changed my life get started today and moves 15 pounds and 15 weeks when you're the leader is the cleanup and restoration how do you make like it never even happened? happened brand ever

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assignment with adi cornish. >> listen wherever you get your podcasts closed captioning brought to you by meso our firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. >> if you or a loved one has been diagnosed with mesothelioma collis. now good evening. >> welcome to our continuing special products on coverage and the trump new york hush money trial. dave, 14 so i'm prosecutors focused or a current bookkeeper& a former white house staffer on how closely their boss watched every dollar, including far smaller sums in his and michael cohen