emphasis on how i said something. >> reporter: researchers listened to some 8700 of these snippets off the caribbean island of dominica. trying to figure out what they are saying is the next step. >> is it possible we could one day talk to whales? >> i think it will be possible to be able to be sending information back and forth. anne thompson, nbc news. >> the beautiful giants to take us off the air. on that note, i wish you a good night. remember, you can catch the katie phang show saturday on nbc. from all of us here across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. see you at the end of tomorrow.

welcome to the beat. i'm ari melber. we begin with donald trump's criminal trial. the judge late today denying another attempt by trump's lawyers to just run away from this thing. indeed, the judge admonished trump's lawyers for insinuating that actress stormy daniels has changed their story. the judge said i disagree with your narrative there is any new account here. daniels wrapping up her testimony. she spoke under oath for hours and basically rhetorically stood her ground during the reports we have. it got very tense with the questioning from trump's defense lawyers. all of this about trying to make a bet that the jury wouldn't be as offended by some of the line of questioning as they would be concerned about the potential questions raised on her credibility. >> you wanted money.

that phrase repeated multiple times by donald trump's lawyer today as she grilled stormy daniels during cross- examination. >> it bordered on shaming a sex worker. >> stormy daniels getting the most attention. >> you see donald trump, that it is his motivation to really shame this woman and it is not working. >> it felt like something that might have happened three decades ago. >> she was not going to let her story be mischaracterized. >> that is the clash because donald trump is running for president and there are many layers to this. the first and most important legal layer is whether this will work on the jury or backfire. then we can also have of course at the same time, the wider discussion about what you heard legal experts there describe as mysogeny and out of date. is any of this helping donald trump's defense with the jury?

is it a wash or might it backfire? one of the things trying to frame daniels' history in a very certain way. they asked daniels pointedly you made this up. they said it was about money. she said i asked for money to tell my story. that's a distinction between the allegation of extortion. did she want money for no reason or did she have something that had essentially market value? we know the tabloids thought it did. during one heated interaction, daniels said to trump's lawyer you are putting words in my mouth. that was the tone. this is definitely more tense back and forth than we have seen on many different days. the defense got daniels to concede she had not have a firsthand knowledge of how trump's role evolved in paying for the transaction because it was at this distance through the intermediate lawyers. trump's lawyer asked daniels you have no personal knowledge about his involvement in that

financial transaction. do you? she is under oath and said not directly. no. prosecution also came back at daniels because that is how it works when you go back and forth and they asked if telling the truth about trump has been a net positive or a net negative for her. that is a straightforward question. given what she has been through, this is her view under oath. you can mark it by what she has been through publicly, tax. person security. i will tell you. she says it has been negative. the point being if she did all this to get money or improve her life, well, by her statement under oath and a lot of other indicaters did it not improve her life. many court reporters and legal experts say daniels basically had a good day today although

again, the question is how this plays out. if the defense team basically added doubt to a couple of jurors by a very old or unfair play book, that will be tested in this trial. her attorney spoke to nbc after the testimony saying it was an excellent job of responding directly. simply, and thoroughly. and the lawyer saying he is proud of how she conducted herself. now when you look at the broader context and why it is so tense, she might be the only woman who has this history with donald trump that the jury will hear from. the other was part of the catch and kill payments. karen mcdougal who said her story was bought by the enquirer and silenced. shh e will not testify. they also called a bookkeeper. this is a big one because there's all the financials. there you have this testimony

that trump and his now convicted top money man, the cfo were talking daily. that corroborates the point that trump was involved in these things. if one of the defenses i have told you is he president, a lot is going on. wasn't involved. well, the problem for donald trump is that paperwork and his own aids, these are not critics. his own trump financial staff say actually, even while president, he was this involved. prosecutors will continue to hone in on this because they want to show that this wasn't some after the fact thing. that trump was in on it. trump's former white house assistant will be testified. she worked at rnc. discussing on the stand the release of the access hollywood tape rattled the leadership. also testimony about internal conversations about it got so bad, that they were looking at replacing trump as a candidate

if it came to that. that matters because again, a jury looking at a former president thinks well, he won. the point here in the campaign crime theory is this was how close he was, to not only losing, but maybe not being allowed to finish the race if the rnc pulled him off the ballots. trump's team has down played this. they say there is always some of that, that causes total consternation for a couple of days and she did agree with that and confirm to the prosecution trump met with cohen at the white house in 2017. there was an email on that. michael cohen described the meeting as a time where they discuss. the testimony showed she thinks highly of trump and she got emotional on the stand. the defense sees that as potentially humanizing her. so, what you see here is what

we told you would happen. you get some exciting testimony. some human moments whether they are for oar against the defendant. we saw that emotional testimony from someone the jury might sympathize with. we also saw stormy daniels go clashing. very directly with trump's lawyers. and then you have all of the paperwork and the receipts which is boring compared to discussions of intimate details or someone's history in the adult film industry. but the da's team here is hoping to do something methodical. to combine the human and emotional and the memorable with the wrote and the written and the boring so by the end, they can say this wasn't just about shaming this defendant and candidate or making him look bad or overdoing it against him. it is well, it has been supported in a lot of evidence. he is legally presumed innocent. but there is a lot of evidence

they covered it up. then the campaign crime is why we keep talking about how he might have been knocked off the ballot or this or that. if they buy the trump defense that well, he was going to win anyway or was also controversial or this wasn't such a big deal, this undercuts the idea this was a planned mentally intentional campaign crime. it is not good enough the say they wanted to cover it up. they needed to campaign part too. that witness i told you from the rnc will be back on the stand when court resumes tomorrow. so this whole thing is barreling forward. emily is our special guest tonight. i want to get into this with you in 90 seconds. you in 90 seconds.

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with a rapid dry core that locks in your heaviest gush quickly for up to zero leaks. always discreet- the protection we deserve! it was that kind of thing. i don't need somebody to speak for me. and i relish the day that i get to face him and then speak my truth. >> stormy daniels speaking her truth today. and, unlike some people who haven't testified, there is legal pressure around that. we are joined by emily basilon. legal writer. welcome. >> thank you. >> now let's start with the most narrow question. the 12 jurors here. based on what we know when we watch this back and forth now, your thoughts on how they will take this in. the stormy daniels testimony.

>> well one thing i was thinking about was that trump has denied the sexual encounter and that opens the door to stormy daniels coming in and talking about it. trump's lawyer i gather from the judge's comments today did not object to some of the details. that now trump's defense team is trying to use to call for a mistrial. so you have that problem. and you have another problem, that the defense has to attack the credibility of stormy daniels. as you were saying earlier, it is kind of antiquated the way they are attacking her and maybe there are jurors sexist and old fashioned enough to hold her past against her. and there may be jurors really troubled by the way she is being criticized for the kind of career she has. the work she has done.

it all is so tied up in gender politics. it is kind of hard to predict how that is going to play out with the jury. >> it is incredibly gendered as you say. and the stigma or attempt to kind of unfairly impugn someone is different from the more shall we say factual claims you can raise. in other words, in a case like this, asking someone about their work history and their use of money and about getting money and improving her life. those are questions the judge is allowing. they are saying did all of this make your life so much better? she said no. and the jury will look at the treatment in the courtroom and the general sense of going up against someone as powerful as this. and does the theory that it was made up for self-interest after all these years, does that hold

or not? second, whether the stigma stuff backfires. the new york times where about the trump lawyer saying derisive of daniels' sex work. the public perceptions of sex work have changed. what jurors make of the accusation that pornography is akin to fabricating a sexual encounter is very important. it is the afternoon on the west coast emily. and we want to keep it as appropriate as we can here in the news. but i think it is fair to say that the article is referring to the fact that as a general thing, social media is common. i will try to take gender out of it. a person of any gender is involved in that industry, that automatically diminishes them. that makes them somehow less trustworthy. unreliable. they don't have a quote real job or what all of these things is not only not true, i'm not

sure that for an average informed jury that will resonate. we hope we have moved beyond. >> it gives daniels a chance to seem sympathetic and turn the tables. obviously, she accepted money in the form of a hush money payment and she said i wanted to get paid for telling my story. this was money to silence her but originally she came forward to the national inquirer trying to tell her story. but that is different from saying i wanted to get paid for having sex with donald trump and you can't rely on me at all because i used to be an adult film star which just seems like we should be past that. judging people in that way. >> right. and to be as linear as possible, in the johnny depp

case, he and her were actors. and like wise here, the fact she has a job the defense team referred to as at times fictional doesn't tell you much about what was under oath, telling the truth today. and i remind viewers the jury will judge that. they have to decide who they believe. emily, i appreciate you joining us. >> thanks so much for having me, ari. >> absolutely. we'll see you again soon i believe. as we cover the trials. when we come back, we look at the fox news play book and why it might have been the first draft of some of what the trump lawyers are saying in court. t. and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty.

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their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. you may have heard the first draft in history. history gets it better than we do. there is a twist we wanted to dig into.

on whether fox news has become the first draft of a one sided trump defense play book. we heard trump's lawyers trying to discredit stormy daniels on cross-examination. as i mentioned as a general matter, that is not only fine, it is kind of their job. but whether they went over the line with antiquated gender attacks is a big question. that's something a lot of legal observers are looking at. so the contradictions they wanted to get at, really drew attention to the idea that could be somehow supported or buttressed by her history working as an actress. specifically in adult film actress. so they brought up the number of movies she was in and inflated the figure. they said daniels had appeared in about 250 movies. she said over 150, 150ish. the defense tried to undermine her testimony that trump had made her uncomfortable. not the first time someone made a pass at you, the lawyer

asked. implication combining stigma or idea about ms. daniels is that somehow that is relevant to whether or not she is telling the truth. the jury is asked to listen to her and decide if she is telling the truth. did they have this encounter. and were there payments to cover it up? a lot of this over stuff can feel derogatory. several outlets covering this as looked at the problem and said the defense is trying to shame the witness and it raises the question, is this the kind of strategy that will work in court which is the lawyer's job, or is it sort of a bubble of getting high on their own supply of their client and his media echo chamber made them think these are great arguments. >> stephanie clifford. >> how many people have you had

transactional sex with? >> stormy daniels is now doing comedy. which is a step up from doing porn. >> we are taking the most low and degrading kind of work a woman can do and somehow pretending that it is empowering of women. >> number one, why is it assumed that the porno actress and the ex-playboy bunny are telling the truth? >> again. it is fair game in court to ask whether someone is telling the truth and look at the evidence that may support or contradict the claims but it is not a legitimate legal argument that says they have the kind of job that is full of liars. if that is a gendered thing or a fiction thing, a lot of juries might not find it compelling. you say oh, this guy writes novels, how could you believe him? or you have a lot of experience quote making phony stories about sex. daniels replying on the stand,

wow, that is not how i would put it. the sex in the films is very much real. just like what happened to me in that room. now, there are many different aspects to all of this. we spoke just this week to a prominent women's rights attorney. who discussed the importance in the difference in dynamics. >> the pearl clutching and the mistrial motions, and some of the commenters saying she went too far when she said he blocked the door. why are we always silencing women? why can't we put total context why donald trump would break the law so that the american people never heard this? >> it is a good question from an experienced lawyer. on this matter tonight. she gets the last word. why. would maga lawyers and defense lawyers try to silence this woman to show there is maybe a

different story? that is the question. with e have a lot more in the program tonight including the chaos that riles the republican party as their new speaker had to be defended by democrats. we have a special guest coming up. up. personal shopper, an exercise buddy. life's good. when you have a plan. ♪♪ if you have chronic kidney disease you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪

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major story out of congress this week is house republicans reeling from another attempt to oust their own new speaker and

they rely on democrats to fend off a right wing challenge. there was an overwhelming vote of bipartisan vote on the speaker. you may recall in the beginning of the session, things have gotten so out of control, democrats decided they would be better off to protect recently elected speaker mike johnson. he was under fire from maga congressman marjorie taylor greene. her move was met with boos. >> i think today has proven the uni party is alive and well and the democrats now control speaker johnson. >> stunts like this does not unify our conference. >> moscow marjorie has gone off the deep end. maybe the result of a space laser. >> most of us by the time we turn 12 year old figure out tantrums don't work. >> hopefully this is the end of the personality politics and

the frivolous character assassination that has defined congress. >> you heard mike johnson there. he the talking about himself. let's be clear. it is that process, whatever words he wants to put on it that got him elected. that got mccarthy booted. right? it is that right wing block, gaetz, mtg and a few others saying they want everything, the speakership. whether they continue on as speaker and other big things are subject to this party line veto. so, it doesn't work well because of what they put in place. and, johnson's position is basically okay. pull the bridge up now that he got in that way. as for the former speaker, well, he is pointing out that johnson is doing the very thing he was encouraged not to do or threatened and punished for even thinking about doing which was having what? bipartisanship to beat back the likes of mtg. >> i couldn't live with myself if i had to deal with the

democrats. if you can't sustain being speaker by your own majority, should you sustain it? my question, no. so either i will win speaker and be the leader with the majority, otherwise, it is not right to be the speaker. >> it is a sad and frankly hard to believe statement from kevin mccarthy who did all kinds of things to be speaker but he thought it would be too controversial. to work with the democrats. now he is watching his successor doing that. mtg is not saying whether she will do this again. you saw many of her republican colleagues are upset with her and there is a lot going on in the world. a lot of foreign policy issues, a lot of domestic challenges. republicans getting toward the general election where they say they could with a larger majority and the white house deliver for the american people. one of the problems they face is the american people can see what it looks like to have republicans in charge of the house. they can't even pick their own

leader. let alone continue to govern. libby casey joins us now. libby, what's going on and is it getting worse for the republicans with repetition? >> it is so interesting to see what happened this week. marjorie taylor greene told our reporters on the hill a day before this, ari, there was a little bit of time. she had been meeting with speaker johnson. they were having this dialogue. then boom, she was moving forward and there was this man panic scurry. and to quote the great ts elliot, it went out not with a bang, but with a whimper. it was over before it started. she couldn't get enough people on board to get through the first motion. democrats joined with most republicans to just put a nail in this coffin. so, we put a nail in the coffin for now. it is a real loss for her.

it is embarrassing in many ways. she got booed. but, you know, donald trump is still cheering her on from the sidelines. and, even though mike johnson won this moment, you know, some republicans are saying that this does cast a shadow over his leadership. it continues to cast that shadow. it is not like he is, how can i carry on this metaphor? it is not like he put a stake in the heart of this thing. because there were a handful of republicans who sided with her. and, he will likely get a challenger come november. and so, we'll see if he is able to keep his speakership for longer than that. marjorie taylor greene, thomas massey. one of her cohorts in this. they were saying, they were basically saying if he is doomed he will be out come november. but the real question will be,

will americans reelect republicans to lead the house again? because, you know, they may just get sick of this chaos. >> right. not everyone is following everything constantly. but if you occasionally tune in, you see the republicans fighting among each other which means they are not even trying to set aside time to bring other bills to the floor or govern. does that hurt them this year? >> yeah. and what are they so mad at johnson for? it's not like he was a huge champion of ukraine. he just let things happen. he allowed the log jam to get pushed through. this is a real issue. putin could go a lot further than ukraine and this is something marjorie taylor greene cannot abide by. he is being punished for bipartisanship. these days, with hard liners, they just won't allow that. now i do have to give you the

counterport of this. democrats have fights in their party. but they are trying to stay unified and work as a block for the most part. >> yeah. and we started with ts elliot. i suppose, to put a simple phase on it, sometimes you lose some you lose some. that's where it has been for the house republicans with the narrow majority. libby, you always kept an eye on things for us in washington. we appreciate it. thanks for being here. >> thank you, ari. >> appreciate it. let me tell folks we have something very interesting we think coming up. we have been following the trials and all the other issues. but we will dig into political rhetoric and some of the lessons democrats are looking at to fight lies in this maga era. that's next. this maga era. that's next. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone.

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and those treatments provide cures. and the cures are allowing patients to get to grow up and live amazing lives all around the world. rhetorical battle. >> gentlemen. i want to say to you mr. zoren, that i don't have your talent for distortion, for confusing language and for double talk. and i must confess to you i'm glad i don't. >> i'm glad i don't. stevenson also popularized a line used to this day. saying if his opponents the republicans will stop telling lies about his side, he would

stop telling the truth about them. shredding allegations while doubling down on his own credibility. we will come back to that. and back to that tonight in this report about a figure who has been at the top so long, let me say his time is over. and a challenger who will stop at nothing for the throne. that might apply to the president defending his title from the former president. but this is actually a different throne. as the rapper with the most hits, drake, fights the rap artist with the most acclaimed poetry. kendrick lamar. that's not all. i can tell you in the past six weeks, there are about ten new songs from four different artists, mostly a rate against drake and a battle between drake and kendrick lamar. they are topping the charts and captivating fans. joe biden's presidential campaign just engaged on the

kendrick lamar side. we are talking about an event that is so big if our culture, driving debates and plenty of news. >> drake and kendrick lamar are trending. >> there is a lot to unpack in the drake and kendrick lamar. >> two legendary rappers going at it making wild accusations. >> if drake and kendrick lamar got in a rap battle who would win? >> got to go with kendrick. >> winner in music, a big surprise, kendrick lamar. >> the pulitzer prize in music has almost always gone to someone in the worldover contemporary classic music. >> i love the drake new project. i take that as love for my little brother. >> i don't want to hear [bleep]. >> in their generation, in their prime. i have never seen a rap battle give us this much music. >> lamar kendrick and drake. >> everyone keeps coming up to

me and asking, gayle, where do you stand on this drake kendrick lamar feud? >> it has been the best rap battle i have witnessed. >> right now, we have just lived through the most significant battle of my musical genre in decades. the most consequential clash. over 100 million people have actually heard these songs or about them. and this is deeper than rap to paraphrase rick ross. it is about culture, truth, capitalism, civil rights, and what values we honor and reward. now in the two polls of hip hop, kendrick lamar represents the more artistic raw and truthful voice. remember i mentioned governor adele stevenson's line. lamar echoes him in this battle directed at drake. >> i know you a mass

manipulator and habitual liar too. but don't tell no lie about me and i won't tell no truth about you. >> lamar taking truth from a higher ground and lit the fuse for the whole battle in a recent verse after a long running cold war between these two. both artists did about 11 songs in all including eight in the last 17 days. a flurry of music. lamar argues in these songs that drake is a quote scam artist. with the hopes of being accepted. and proclaiming himself the true artist like lamar and rafael who heals and gives you art. but he says the industry is cooked as he picks the carcass apart. lamar's allegories treat drake as a soulless zombie atop a dead industry and lamar casts himself as a reluctant but lethal artistic warrior and revolutionary. indicts drake for continuing

the ugly american play book of exploiting black culture. copying and stealing art without credit or value without equity. this is an issue from current artists that drake works with. to the others that he may idolize. take the late tupac. lamar invokes tupac for their shared vision. he condemned the same capitalist dynamics before his untimely death. >> all society is doing is leeching off the ghetto. they use the ghetto for their pain, their sorrow, their culture, their music. for their happiness. for their movies. >> leeching. tupac was then diagnosing a problem in american capitalism and how it controls culture, what he called there, the ghetto quote unquote, or black culture from entertainment and movies to music, to withering and punishing contracts and abuse of artists while they

lived and after they die. this is a long running issue. as for the current debate, hip hop experts report that lamar was right to tackle this particular use in exploitation of culture and language. >> the streets in this hip top means something. the streets and the community, where this stuff comes from, the language, the slang, the afilllations to individuals who live a lifestyle that is nefarious, they mean something to your credibility. >> this means something to your credibility. and so, what may look to some like a battle between two entertainers. you may have thought it is just an entertainment story. what may look like that is much

deeper for many, many people. it is a battle. drake has been arguing that lamar is the poser in his own right saying he acts like an activist and plays with those themes lyricically. but doesn't take action for his community. it is all make believe. drake also says that while he works hard, lamar doesn't make that much music. anymore. drake dismisses this hand wringing over both hits. the idea is top artists want to go number one. so drake argues his competitors only do so by making songs with him so they do benefit from him or picking fights and talking about him. the boy in a lopsided 20 on one matchup. now drake's response is make some points here. with artistry. but over the course of this

battle, he found himself defending a type of status quo. and then backing off this big long awaited battle after he had taunted lamar about everything from how often he drops music to whether he would get involved in this battle which he really did. now what we are discussing here is a small slice of these issues. both men also accused each other of serious crimes with no evidence. the kind of claims responsible journalists don't repeat. devolving into accusations as the new york times put it. with attacks on everything from race to appropriation to body image to misogyny, trauma and more. many have noted the extremes here. this is where culture may reflect and extend the broader problems we face today. from our politics to how we live and learn and engage online. we have this kind of cynical

anti-truth mode that has become very normalized. i know you are familiar with it if you follow news and politics. people will seriously say well, if the conspiracy theory sticks, it doesn't matter if it is true. it worked. i want to be clear as we take a look at this important battle that these kind of lyrical contests were once waged more in the spirit of argument, some sense of truth. so we should ask are they now graded on just the most effective lies? or conspiracy theories? because if that happens, art can devolve into politics. not listening to the other side. claiming everything is justified for your team. effective lies win. why not use them, too. the other side is doing it anyway. that is not only corrosive, it also makes us vulnerable to a

bigger problem where culture is less able to do what it has done including specifically civil rights and black culture for a long time. to push us and redeem our political divides. some of this may only reflect them and that would be a product of our digitized era. i'm not saying who is responsible but noting some of these wider conflicts. so that is the big picturings now, this is still a battle. and there's the question of who won. most hip hop heads say kendrick lamar. that is clear online, from fans, to rap media. as for the hits, well, this new catalog, the new songs, they are doing higher numbers with more likes than drake and breaking records coming out of the ununpredictable exchange of poetry between these two

lyricists. lamar cautions against using only that kind of metric. in the new songs he criticizes faking for likes and digital hugs. and he contrasts that with authentic credibility. indeed, in these songs, after lodging objections to bad tastes and bad ideas, kendrick lamar underscores his argument which i told you is supported by many in america right now. but he actually represents a movement. he says notice. i said we, it is not just me. i'm what the culture feeling. end quote. all right. now, art is not usually a competition. but we all have choices to make. from how we live to what we support. when it is boiled down to picks sides. it can be more significant to

look at who you endorse. how are we getting there? do we define the criteria and values we use to make these choice ins and do we figure out if those criteria and values are correct. or if they need to evolve. this battle tested those values for many in realtime. what happens in the culture matters. not only in the moment, because we are here on the first draft of history, but for years to come the next generation. shaping minds. a lot more people follow culture than news and politics. so when we have one of these big debates in realtime, we should listen to each other and the next generation. what do people stand for? who do we oppose? why do you care? if they are not like us? and what do we want to be?

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>> let's just go through it. they scream brace for impact. >> this is a real dr. jane goodall barbie. >> a barbie doll that encourages little girls to think that i can do that. >> they scream wilson at me. >> they never get the whole story in the first year. >> i had the brashness of youth to pursue ideas that seemed famous. >> they scream run forrest run. >> it is action that leads to hope. >> massive societal change is 100% possible. >> if you want to make a change, you cannot do it as an isolated individual. >> the truth is very rarely positive. >> i need somebody to say it's okay that your perspective is different. >> the only way to be successful in life is to do what you love and love what you do. >> the greatest threat to free speech is. >> the public not supporting it. >> failure to you means. >> growth. >> not trying at all.

>> just try harder next time. >> success means. >> winning. >> reaching the summit means. >> trying harder every day. >> peace and fulfillment. >> i feel like i'm in the foothills. >> you have done something positive with the power that the summit has given you. >> that i haven't got there yet, i hope. >> jane goodall hasn't gotten there. i love that answer. and some of the others. eric holder. our newest summit series interrue is with justice prior and he had a lot to tell us. you can check it out online. go to msnbc.com/summitt. you'll see jane, bill, fran, tom hanks, clive davis and so many more. check it out. if you are interested. you can share them that way. because they are youtube videos easy to share with friends and family. the last word with lawrence o'donnell is up next. well, tonight, we begin at the end. because this time, the end tells you